Kumar: let the music be the soundtrack of a spiritual experience.

We met at 4:30 in the afternoon at the bar La Negra Tomasa, in the very center of Madrid. A place usually crowded by people from Cuba, but that Tuesday had the particularity that Roberto Carcassés and Lydia María would play a repertoire of boleros and sones that would make us feel at home.

He arrives a few minutes after me and, seeing him approaching smiling and slow (very much in his style), I felt that time went back twenty years, when we met. We squeezed each other in an embrace that put an end to five years of misunderstandings.

Kumar emerged from the hip hop movement of the late 1990s when the Alamar Amphitheater was the epicenter of the genre. At that time he was known as El Menor and you can't talk about the hip hop scene in Havana without mentioning him.

Born and raised in Mantilla, and without having gone through any music school, he released his first album in 2003, Kumarwith which he won a Lucas award for the video of the theme song You see. Although he was already a "heavyweight" in the industry, television and recognition expanded his horizons and sonority. The deep timbre of his voice and his particular way of rapping also made him join the group M.A.T.E. (Movimiento Alternativo en Tiempos Extremos) in 2006 and, since then, his music moved to the alternative and urban level. Jazz, funk, Afro-Cuban rhythms and reggae came to redefine his rapping career, although his poetics also determined the stylistic and sonorous seal that he would also defend together with M.A.T.E. Not in vain they filled and overflowed the Salón Rosado de La Tropical on several occasions.

"This interview has been difficult, it has been postponed many times," I tell him to warm up. "But you had to come to Madrid to do it," he answers. "That's right, doing it to you live and direct tastes better," I comment while serving him a toasted Mahou without alcohol. He takes off the coat that had been protecting him from the seven degrees outside and shines, in the yellowish light that covers us, large red and white beads of his Shangó necklace.

Photo: courtesy of the artist

-What are you doing, tell me about your work. I know you are in several projects: Kumar and Afrosideral. Tell me about that difference.

-Well, the answer is easy. You know I come from the hip hop scene and one is always looking for pseudonyms to have a battle name. Becoming Kumar and then connecting with M.A.T.E. took me a while.

"When I arrive in Europe it gets even more intense because Kumar is a Hindu name and on the platforms it is a name linked to that. 15 years ago when I arrived in Spain, on MySpace and the like it was very difficult to find an address of any profile with 'Kumar' because there were so many (from India, Pakistan, etc.). So that's when I put the 'Sublevao' in it., which was a name that I had been [interested in] for a long time, and also a concept of Afro-Cuban music connected to hip hop. With that combination I have done half of my career here in Spain, and during the first eight years I started to try to translate what I brought from Cuba and to connect with the whole Cuban scene. world music that was in Barcelona and begin to nourish myself from that.

"So, Kumar is like that essence of Cuban alternative music, of rap, of mixing with jazzmen, with musicians of the world. It is a tree that has many extensions and within them appears electronic music. After being in the Manana Festival (2016) that took place in Santiago de Cuba, I stayed connected with that concept, I liked the roll of electronic music and Afro-Cuban. Then at that time I released (with Wonderwheel Recordings) the album The Olympus of the Orishas (2019), and this begins to open up a path for me that I had not investigated so far."

"I had always been leaning towards having more musicians, band, a sound more liveI wasn't used to making that sound on my own. So when I started doing this kind of electronic music sessions, I was forced to develop myself. For example, making a live with electronic instruments has made me develop a little more as a multi-instrumentalist with certain drums (the tama, the sakara, etc.), a couple of African flutes, the kalimba...; in the end it is to integrate all the Afro part that I can access from my possibilities.

"My live set, the one I'm championing right now, is more dance-focused as well. So you go there and it's like going into a trance; it's progressing, but it's to move the energy. And the vocal part is more focused on Afro-Cuban chants, orishas and electronic music, sometimes faster and sometimes a little slower.

"Also, along the same path as Afrosideral, during the pandemic I made an album called. Orishas Zenwhich is the same: chants of the orishas, but on a meditative plane connected to Asian music. I plan to bring it out soon; sometimes I have the albums there, but I take my time to bring them out. However, I think now is a good time. A label has appeared that is interested, it's a way of saying "come on, you have no excuse and get it out". I think it's going to come out in 2024, although it has nothing to do on a mood level with what I propose in a concert like in the Jamboree where, for example, I go to a session with a Brazilian percussionist and there we get into it. So Afrosideral moves in that world, it goes there between club music, dance music, and the more meditative music, the spiritual music scene, like zen.

-Yes, I remember from Afro-Zen You released some demos and the people who follow you liked it a lot; because it even evokes the crossing of our Afro and Asian roots; very few times people talk about that mix. You have also mentioned your live concerts a lot and I have seen in your networks that you certainly play in many events, do you live more from music, from playing live, than from anything else?

-Totally.

-And how is the public here, how do you feel?

-There are definitely seasons; there are times when there are more concerts, times when there are fewer. Thanks to a lot of study, dedication and hard work, well I also produce and I generate income from music, although I do another type of management. And in the end the public is very varied. The fact of not making mainstream it gives you the possibility of always [doing] something new everywhere [you] go. And that always keeps you with a little bit of...not pressure, but....

-Adrenaline?... Creative adrenaline?

-Yes, because in the end, even though I [continue] playing. The Temple of the OrishasRight now when I go to the venues [I also play] a repertoire that mostly has these songs, but I'm adding new ones, removing some and adding others. And in the end that means that every time I go to the venues, even though I've been playing the repertoire in different places, for the people [it's usually] a discovery.

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-The last time you played in Cuba was years ago at the Yara cinema, wasn't it?

-After that I went back to playing.

-When was the last time?

-At the Havana World Music 2019.

-What do you feel when you go back to play in Cuba?

-That was incredible... the experience for me was incredible. It's not the same to make an album [The Olympus of the OrishasIt is generated with electronic music, with percussion and people that I invite (but mostly it was an album that I had created practically by myself); to arrive in Cuba and have the complicity of Rumbatá, which was the group that served as my accompaniment, breaking with the format that people always expect with the band (the guitarist, the bassist, the brass).

-And was it right there in Cuba that you came up with the idea and generated all that change? Was it planned and set up while you were there?

-Yes, yes, I rode it once before. They went to rehearse They came to my house in Mantilla, they were there a couple of times, and it was a very nice experience. I met them when I was producing Telmary's album, Arará Force.

-A great song and a great album, of which you are the producer.

-Yes, and from that album I stayed connected with the musicians of Rumbatá, and when I came back I said to myself: "this is what I've been doing alone, the one who sings the choruses and does everything, I'm going to be playing their drums", which are four percussionists plus five voices. It was really incredible as an experience.

-Would you like to play in Cuba again?

-What I can tell you is that the last time I went to Cuba I had no desire to play. I've always liked playing in Cuba, I'm even excited about it. But times are changing, people are changing, life is cyclical. Unfortunately people in Cuba have not yet had access to the music I am making now in a way that really influences their lives. It still remains within an alternative world, even within that alternative world there will be people who don't know me despite platforms like Instagram and so on. It's possible that for a lot of people who are my son's age, who is 20 years old, for example, I'm an unknown. And I make music that I'm sure for their generation is perfect, because if they go to a concert it has electronic music, it has Afro, it has rap, and it's fun music.

-Now that you talk about rap, do you feel that you are still within the world of Cuban hip hop, of rap?

-Look, after 40 years of life and 25 years since I started rapping, I understand one thing: the hip hop movement is something that takes a journey, takes a dedication and, above all, takes an attitude. So, rapping I will never lose it because that is my language. It's inevitable for me to go out and rap, it comes out of intuition, even though now I have the ability (which I didn't have before) to do more melodic things. A lot of people count on me to rap. So, even though I'm not in the hip hop movement, I have a connection with hip hop that I can't avoid. And I have music, I have several tracks like that. As I'm prioritizing, I've been keeping them, but I think I have an album of Kumar Sublevao Beat to release. That was difficult for me at the beginning, but it has given me the possibility to give a musical update to other things that I have out there and release them for those people who have a nostalgia or like that part of me more. I tell you, it's something I use all the time, it's not that I make electronic music and then I don't rap. I rap, I make electronic music, I make meditation music, I make experimental music; in other words, I have learned to open up and open up. There are no borders. The collaborations I do are diverse.

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-And when you get on stage, do you feel that you are the same Kumar of 20 years ago or a Kumar with more strength? Of course a more experienced Kumar, but how do you see that Kumar after 20 years?

No, I believe that each Kumar has had his moment and, for example, the Kumar of Cuba had a hurricane force, he was very trance-like, very revolted, very cimarrón, with a lot of scenic expression [within the] space as well. When I arrived here I came with that heritage, and with the possibility of doing big stages and continue feeding that projection. Then I had my more performative time: I put dreadlocks on my face, played my characters and so on. Now, of course, depending on the music, I have concerts where I express the same force channeled in another way. I have a song, for example, singing to Aggayú (orisha that in the Yoruba pantheon represents the volcano), and when you see the video you see trance, you can see the same Kumar of all times but concentrated, perhaps, in something more afro, more tribal.

"And then, on the other hand, I've developed the ability to make music sitting down, I don't have any pretensions right now. I show what each moment carries and what each music carries. I have developed much more versatility; I always had the opportunity to collaborate with many artists in Cuba and with many styles, but over time I have become even more [versatile] within my own musical field. One thing is to collaborate with artists of different genres, and another thing is that within your own musical path you can have things more towards hip hop, others more meditative, more jazz, or more experimental, etc.".

-Talking about musical varieties, do you see with concern the Cuban music scene, or the kind of music consumption that takes place in Cuba today? You were talking about your son, the generation of boys his age, do you see it with concern or not?

-No, I say that each passing generation has been consuming a music that for the previous generations is always like "what is this? In the end I am not responsible for what my son listens to, neither artistically, nor as a father; the choice he has (and I speak of him as the closest thing to young Cubans) is based on his sensitivity and on what the environment gives him, right?

"Inevitably something happened with urban music, it was so marginalized by Cuban institutions that they made their own way. And being a danceable music, to which everyone has access, it began to generate money and right now I think that the Cuban artists that generate more are the reguetoneros or the new reparteros, because in the end they have developed a musical style parallel to everything that is happening in Latin America and the Caribbean and Africa; because it has influence from the afrobeatIt is influenced by reggaeton, by what is happening in the Dominican Republic, and by Afro-Cuban music. Plus the pop artists that have taken advantage of the boom of Afro-Cuban and urban music, of this contemporary moment, and they have tucked that everything is more sung, more 'fine', but the background is the same, the musical sonority is the same; it is like the rumba.

"When you listen to rumba, you perceive the difference between the rumberos, but you feel that there is a style; with the cast it's the same, there are a couple of singers like Elvis Manuel or Chocolate or Adonis, [with] a part that is like 'wa wa wa wa waand another one more melodic. I believe that those three have generated what today is a genre. Even artists like Wampi, who is more like Elvis Manuel (that's how I see him), more melodic, more musical. On top of that, he is a kid who comes from school, from playing saxophone, so he is not a reguetonero from the neighborhood... Yes, he is from the neighborhood, but he comes from playing. So you feel the musicality, you feel the difference and another type of musical projection. Artists like him, even though they sing [about] super explicit sex, nowadays it's normal.

"We have to break down the taboo of talking about sexuality. Everyone talks about sexuality as they see it. It would be much better if, in addition to such an explicit sexuality, so graphic, so much of the body; it would also be possible to develop in parallel other types of proposals that call attention and say: yes, this sexuality exists, but I like another one. Because I am not going to give up dancing in the pole dance because it is associated with the world of commercialization and prostitution, for example.

"Every day shows that things that are in one context, if put in another, change meaning. The same happens with art. Because at the time when jazz was only listened to in brothels, it was like a reggaeton (laughs), it was the devil's music, rock has been the devil's music, they have been talking about drugs, sex, they have been talking about everything for a long time. What is the problem? That today everything is very direct, then, on the sexual level there is a kind of liberation. You see the process of the sexual revolution of how women used to wear skirts down to their knees, then miniskirts, until now; you can see that development and it also speaks of a process of how sexuality is understood. How important it is to teach and how important it is what you see. Because in the time when clothes were long it wasn't so important what you looked like but how the person really was. I'm making a parallel because I had never talked about these things in this way, now I'm making this reflection. I think music today, and especially the industry, is focused on what you see. For example, with female empowerment, they have taken advantage of that discourse to sell. The system is developing a mindset that makes women think they are empowered when in the end what to me they are doing is overexploiting. They have never stopped doing what they have always done."

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-Going back to Kumar, you said, and I've been thinking about it, that the new generations don't know Kumar, how would you like the new generations to know you?

-Of course, the same versatility makes it very difficult to sell people on a performance as well. I think that in the end Kumar is an artist who controls contemporary genres, genres of music and ancestral styles, and who uses music not only in a playful way, but also [tries] to make music the soundtrack of a ceremonial, spiritual experience, and also where you can have fun, you can learn things, you can laugh, have a meditative moment, go to a concert without needing to drink alcohol to enjoy my music, nor do you need to get high. In other words, I believe that it is not to prohibit people but also to make them understand that you can reach a state of enjoyment and ecstasy when you are in the right place, surrounded by the right people and listening to the right music. Have an incredible journey and live a transformative experience.

-If this is difficult for countries, territories, contexts where there is already a greater awareness of the alternative, not as a slogan or as a fashion, but as a serious reaction to excessive consumption, reification, etc., it is even more difficult in Cuba in a context of crisis....

-But extremely necessary.Laughs).

-So, thinking about it, how would you like to see yourself playing in Cuba, in what context?

-That's the power of realization and how one wants to do things, because I tell you, a stage like Havana World Music works for me. It works for me because I have that capacity to transmit. No matter the context. Or a stage like the Fábrica [Cuban Art Factory] or the National Theater, or the Karl Marx. Any of those scenarios works for me. The same Tropical that was so significant for me and for everyone.

"Now, what is the goal, what does one really want to do? Does one really want to do a concert, or be part of an experience? Then, in the end, 'doing' is part of an experience. Massive is complicated, to massify an experience is complicated. One of the things I experience is that very interesting events are not massive. You can find an event of 200 people and an incredible thing happens. There are many types of artists, many people who facilitate therapies... An event, thinking of Cuba, where you could do yoga, Afro-Cuban dance, meditation, growth talks, talk about a book, or a debate with a teacher talking about his experience, can offer people the possibility of practicing or having an experience through a practice, and that they leave with something more than a concert. Like an inspiration. Like something that you say 'wow'."

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-Is Kumar interested in reaching out to the large community of Cubans in Madrid and Spain?

-Of course, I would love to. I always miss them, don't you?

-It's just that, even though I'm visiting, I've seen a very large community, something I didn't see years ago when I was here too.

-There are many musicians who have arrived, many new people, there is a tremendous migratory wave and I realize that there is another type of people who prefer to migrate to Europe, not so much to the United States. There are a lot of musicians who are in Barcelona right now.

-But I'm not just talking about musicians, I'm also talking about the audience.

-Of course, the audience. Personally, when I do a concert here, in Café Berlin, for example, I really miss that audience. I don't know how they don't know... Honestly, what I think, and we have talked about this with artists who live here in Spain, is that the Cuban public works with nostalgia, so they are more likely to show up [with] Havana D'Primera, with Interactivo itself, with Cimafunk, because in the end that connects you with a life experience you had. Telmary, for example, comes to Madrid, and that alternative public comes together. I haven't promoted much either, I've been living in Madrid for five years, but I don't live in Madrid.

-But there is a billboard of Cubans in Madrid, isn't there? I think so, I think that Kumar needs a little bit of promotion and to connect with his audience here?

-Then the next thing will be to take on this billboard as a possibility for Cubans to find out?

-I have met people of all ages who know you, but don't know what you are doing. I myself, who am just passing through, was hunting for you to see you live, but I had no luck even though you played; you didn't let me know (laughs).

-Yes, yes, you are right (laughs).

-Here I take off my interviewer's disguise and the claim of little sister jumps out, but with thanks. Thank you for the interview!

The conversation lasted a little more than half an hour, without silences, without pauses. Unfair time for someone who has a prolific career that spans several countries, territories, and for something that is already so attached to the life of Cubans as is migration. After the selfies for the family in common, I buried myself in the subway and he got lost among the Christmas lights of Callao, but not before feeling that art, music, is the intangible blood that unites us as a common language for those who live far from our affections of origin. I only hope, for the next one, that he will let us know about his next concert.

Photo: courtesy of the artist